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BOO!
richie_d
 Today, 00:54 Post #43526

Markgayle, you're right. The important thing to remember is that writers and publishers are in two different businesses.

Writers: Improve their craft, fulfill their personal ambitions for their art, gain a wide and appreciative readership.

Publishers: Sell books.


The two are not incompatible but the differences are obvious when you've used this site and authonomy.
This post was last edited by richie_d, Today, 00:54
Better class of member on YWO
richie_d
 Today, 00:50 Post #43525

Surely a happier emoticon would be called for? I always reserve the violinist for those moments when I'm feeling sorry for myself. If in doubt, ask Timellis; he's the emoticon expert.
BOO!
markgayle
 Today, 00:35 Post #43524

You only have to visit Authonomy to see.

And one or two other 'clique' sites that encourage recognition over development.
BOO!
Mulberry
 Today, 00:27 Post #43523



Here I am, speaking to some of the best YWO writers who are quite clearly 'playing the system'.



How do people play the system? I'd love to know.
BOO!
markgayle
 Today, 00:06 Post #43522

Quote: richie_d, Friday, 5 Sep 2008 11:09
I'm trying out Authonomy, but it's a very different beast to YWO. It's more of a popularity contest, with little emphasis on critiquing people's work--you're not going to improve your writing by placing it on Authonomy. Obviously, I'm speaking of just a couple of day's experience, but as far as I can see it reminds me of when I had a blog and was trying to up my readership by leaving comments on other people's blogs. After a while, the networking takes up too much time. YWO is definitely the best place for reviews and improving your work.

Right, I'd better get cracking on the free will I promised to Mr Wrigley.. .


Of course Authonomy is a Popularity Contest. That is the point. It isn't the place to earn useful input to your writing, just one other way to possibly get read by Harper Collins Editors.

See it as that and you're fine. See it as a way to prove your work is any good and you have issues.

On the whole it is a great place to get all your mates to back you and boost your book - a great boost on those days you feel a bit crappy - but it means nothing.

As Ted said, the weakest writers will do the whole 'I've backed your book, now you back mine' thing. Who is that really helping? This is their problem and this is why they stand no chance of ever getting anywhere, or so it seems.

Authonomy is an ill considered idea and if any of us are honest little more than a way to garner email addresses from the more gullible.

If you want to be seriously considered, get an agent and have them submit for you. Or send a killer pitch to an editor at HC (or any other publisher, come to think of it). Just because they don't accept your MS without an agency, doesn't mean you can't submit a pitch!!!

If any of us spend our time on their fora or wasting time getting substandard work in front of HC editors, we have only ourselves to blame when we fail.

Here I am, speaking to some of the best YWO writers who are quite clearly 'playing the system'.
This post was last edited by markgayle, Today, 00:14
Credit gone awol
markgayle
 Today, 00:00 Post #43521

Quote: Steevang, Friday, 5 Sep 2008 15:54
Hi Ted,

I did two reviews this am and allocated one credit to 'Who, Me? and banked the other - i had a very swift review this morning. I have now uploaded a new story - which gets it's complimentary credit, but the one i had in the bank has seemed to vanish?

Can i have it back?

Cheers

Steev


I don't think you get a free credit. When you upload new material and have a credit in yout bank, one is taken to send it out.
Credit gone awol
leighvtwersky
 Yesterday, 23:56 Post #43520

Quote: Steevang, Friday, 5 Sep 2008 15:54
Hi Ted,

I did two reviews this am and allocated one credit to 'Who, Me? and banked the other - i had a very swift review this morning. I have now uploaded a new story - which gets it's complimentary credit, but the one i had in the bank has seemed to vanish?

Can i have it back?

Cheers

Steev


I think that uploading (doesn't that sound a bit like applauding??) the new story would have used up the remaining credit which you had in your bank. A new upload always deducts a credit from your bank and can be seen next to the new piece.
BOO!
JDSmith
 Yesterday, 23:42 Post #43519

JD
Thank you Trevorsh
BillMc
 Yesterday, 23:09 Post #43518

I am glad you enjoyed it and were able to follow the plot from my somewhat haphazzard summary!

Many thanks,

Bill
NEW - Critique - The Second Siege
BillMc
 Yesterday, 23:05 Post #43517

Quote: Katkin, Thursday, 4 Sep 2008 08:44
Congratulations, Bill - a glowing crit. Go get 'em!



So nice of you KatKin! Thank you very much! I am shouting "wahoo" myself!!!!!

Better keep it down at the internet cafe...
NEW - Critique - The Second Siege
BillMc
 Yesterday, 23:04 Post #43516

Quote: ProfessionalCritique, Tuesday, 2 Sep 2008 21:31
The Second Seige by William Burton McCormick

Professional Critique by Bloomsbury Editor Gillian Stern


Congratulations on your powerful opening chapters of The Second Siege. I enjoyed reading them as obviously did many other YouWriteOn readers. You write well – clearly and with great strength and direction. This is promising story-telling and assured historical fiction.

These are my relatives that you are writing about. All my grandparents fled Russia and the Ukraine to come to England and they all ended up in the East End working as Chaim and Lev do. Some of my grandfather's brothers and sisters were involved with the Anarchists and several of their families worked in the factories and sewing shops of the time. Yiddish is dying out now in my generation but many words and phrases were passed down to us by great aunts and uncles before they died. The time and place and people in The Second Siege are indeed well-known to me.

I was immediately drawn in to the story – your opening is strong and visual and the narrative voice intriguing, grabbing our attention from the outset. The description of the labourers, the immigrant working experience, is well drawn and we feel immediate empathy for Lev – his displacement and anger at his situation. As the story progresses, we come to find out more about his life and the choices he is going to make and we are with him as he narrates. The voice is powerful and you succeed in one of the most difficult elements of fiction – drawing the reader in and keeping them there. This is not easy and often a stumbling block for many writers, so you should be hugely encouraged by your ability here.

I was not always sure however that Lev read or sounded like a young man. I understand of course that he would have been much 'older' and hardened and experienced compared to boys of 14 today and that he would speak and have attributes of a young man, but there were times when his expressions and insights struck me as those of a much older person (perhaps more the author's way of expressing or seeing things) and I would urge you to look carefully at his voice and ensure that it is consistent and convincing.

Of course, it isn't always easy to tell how a novel is going to pan out from just three or so chapters and your synopsis certainly gives the impression that this is going to be a pretty epic piece of writing and maybe more of Lev's back story and internal dialogue and honesty will emerge as the novel progresses. Certainly here in the extract I have, I was often longing for more – more information as for example, where he and his family have come from, what he remembers about the Old Country and his life there, what made them flee, what it was like to make the journey over, what part religion has and does play in his life – broadly, how it was, in more depth and with more texture and with more texture of emotion. In the synopsis you write about Lev 'raging' against his poverty, but I didn't actually feel that he was raging – his voice is more measured than this. He is angry but I would have liked more depth to that anger, more of the messy complexities he is feeling and facing.

At times too, I would also have liked more reaction. You tend to unveil something shocking, cranking up the tension, only for it to dissipate by a one line response which then abruptly ends the discovery and the story moves on. For example what does Lev feel, how does he react when he finds the icon or when Chaim turns up at the meeting? What is his internal response? How do things shift within him when such things happen? We need to have as much access to his internal dialogue as much as possible – simply leaving the discovery hanging for example, makes us a little frustrated and distanced from Lev at pretty crucial turns.

The story flows well but I was a little surprised when Elephant dies and so is left undiscovered and unexplored as a character. I wonder if before his death there can be a little more interaction between him and Lev? I was slightly confused by the time scale of the story – Lev says at one point that he has been studying the texts for eight months and I wonder if that time passes between one page and another? Is there a reason he doesn't talk with Elephant (apart from language) or spend time listening to discussions?

I also wondered if we could hear about Chaim and about and from Lev's mother a little more? They are our link to the past and it would be fascinating to know their stories and their response to their new environment. How do they keep in touch with family who have been left behind? When do they hope to have enough money to send for someone? Who would they send for? How terrifying is their new life for his mother? How does Lev relate to them? I loved the exchange of words – Lev's responsibility of introducing new words into his mother's limited vocabulary and would liked to have seen a contrast to the harshness of the story through his interaction with his mother.

I would encourage you to write in slightly longer paragraphs. The slightly jerky tempo of the narrative leaves the reader feeling a little ragged. There is so much that is so interesting and potentially exciting and different here in the story, that we need to feel as though we are immersed in the narrative as opposed to being thrown in and out of sentences. I would also encourage you to spend time developing themes and observations and historical detail – again there is so much here that people will not know about, that I of course, want them to know. Your story reminds me of the importance of tolerance and understanding of immigrants – this was my family just a few decades ago, being blamed and set upon for the fragmentation of society at the time.

In conclusion then, I am deeply impressed by your writing. You are able to tell a story, sustain the reader's interest and if the novel develops along the lines of the synopsis, this will indeed be an epic tale. I hope you can write a little more into Lev and the people that surround him – there needs to be more texture in some of the characterisation and a depth of honesty and confusion around his response. Lev is an angry and confused young man, rippling in the quick of his skin and we need to feel his movements and hear his thoughts in noisy sustained relief.

I wish you all the best in completing your novel and much luck in getting it published.




Thank you very much to Gillian Stern for the excellent, indepth critique. It is very useful and I am very glad that you were selected as my critic as you have such knowledge of the people and places. It means a lot.

And thanks, Ted, as always for making it all happen!
BOO!
dannyg
 Yesterday, 22:08 Post #43515



Quote: JDSmith, Friday, 5 Sep 2008 22:06


guess the word: begins with 'c', ends with 'ts' and the middle bit is the opposite of 'nu'.


I think you need to be clearer, Danny.

what did you just call me?
you can learn to drive in a Rolls Royce; you still have to learn to drive.
BOO!
JDSmith
 Yesterday, 22:06 Post #43514



guess the word: begins with 'c', ends with 'ts' and the middle bit is the opposite of 'nu'.

I think you need to be clearer, Danny.
JD
BOO!
dannyg
 Yesterday, 22:02 Post #43513



Quote: Lorraine, Friday, 5 Sep 2008 21:40
Quote: dannyg, Friday, 5 Sep 2008 19:59
Re Authonomy: I feel bad for writers joining there and thinking it will help them improve their writing, as YWO does. It won't (and probably will never) work like that, as there's no incentive. And yes, the quid pro quo thing is already becoming apparent.
There do seem to be some there who try to be as constructive as they can, but even the 'comments' set up makes this difficult, as you can't cut and paste examples into your responses to others work, and who can be arsed re-typing stuff?
It's a shop window, I guess, rather than a critique group and, to be fair, HC haven't really tried to pretend otherwise. It's another option, But not a replacement to YWO or similar sites, I'd say.

In saying that, Scratch is doing pretty well there this month, so I quite like it
And Vlad is pretty pally with Scratch, so I like it, too. I've had two great comments this evening, but neither of them put Vlad on their shelves.


guess the word: begins with 'c', ends with 'ts' and the middle bit is the opposite of 'nu'.
you can learn to drive in a Rolls Royce; you still have to learn to drive.
Better class of member on YWO
MLT
 Yesterday, 21:59 Post #43512

Is Friday 'Be nice to everybody day' or have all the 'dodgy' reviewers gone away for the weekend?
I haven't seen a single rant or moan.
My faith has been restored.
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