Quote from YWO – ‘Feedback can be diverse, but the experience of the site over its history has been that collective feedback from a range of reviewers helps writers to get a collective viewpoint of what works well and what needs developing in their stories. The result has been that the majority of stories are higher rated as a result of revising their writing through feedback.’

Nowhere does it say that the site is for writers of a high standard or for publishable material only. If Authors feel they have reached a point where they are not prepared to help others develop their skills or point out the error of their ways, then they have outgrown the format and should move on.

Cherry picking only the best stories to review is against the ethos of the site and denies struggling writers of much needed feedback. Yes, there are none hopers, but they soon fall by the wayside. I have read some wonderful stories that were woefully written, similarly, I have read some dire tales that were perfectly written. Occasionally, a gem comes along and that makes it all worthwhile.

I don’t cheery pick because I remember all the helpful comment I received when I first started posting on YWO and I hope the site will never reach the point where an elite few strangle the life out of it.

I addressed you by the nickname because I was trying to sound less formal. My apologies if it irritated you. And trust me on this, but I just don't know how to sound patronizing even if I wanted to. Close friends have tried to coach me on this but it just never worked!

The reason I commented on your post was that I used to have your exact opinion about spelling and grammar and it took lots of effort from many good people here to change my convictions. It didn't just make me pay more attention to language when submitting my work, but also alerted me to the importance of applying strict discipline to the writing process. Contrary to my previous believes, strict discipline gives wings to creativity instead of tying it down. I am grateful to those who changed my opinion and I was hoping to offer you the same quality of help I was offered. It is not at all a piece of advice from an expert or someone who is trying to sound like an expert, for I am still lousy in spelling, grammar and punctuation. I am sure if you check my previous post about the importance of avoiding mistakes you would find several mistakes(I found six). Thank god we don't have to proofread our posts here.
Maybe you thought I was hinting at the quality of your own writing, which isn't true. You write much better than I do and I'm not talking just about language but the whole range of writing skills.

As for cherry picking, and if you allow me to do some self promotion, I never turn down an excerpt because of spelling mistakes. I love to receive those, and the more erroneous they are the better. They give me confidence and make me know that I am not alone.

Can I get the contact data of your agent? He sounds like a very nice person.

I'm sorry, John I completely misread you.
My real name is Jan Carr, it's not a nickname.
And no, I'm not irritated at all... occasionally bolshy, perhaps

Strict discipline does sound boring. But i understand what you're saying.
I think it's finding the balance between creativity, voice and acceptable english. For me voice, wins every time. Possibly I go too far sometimes. I do accept that presentation is important but I can't imagine that when a gatekeeper comes across something that sings to them, they turn it down for a few misplaced commas. I also accept that if a new author appears not to have a professional approach, no matter how good the work, an agent/publisher will not probably not consider them because that would not make for an effective working relationship.
Sadly, I've haven't quite reeled in an agent... yet. But recently, more often, i'm getting to this nearly stage i.e. waiting for the verdict on the full MS, but when I've been turned down it's never been because of SPAGs. (Punctuation is more my problem rather than spelling and grammar).

And if you have a problem in this area, like me with punctuation and lots of people with spelling and grammar you are definitely not alone.

I definitely didn't think that and I'm guessing you underestimate yourself. You are very kind and I think what you have said is what I'm talking about, good writing doesn't depend on technicalities and that people with something compelling to say shouldn't be discouraged by lack of confidence in this area. After all what are copy editors for?
This site is a revelation.

Wonder all you like. It's true.

I am in total agreement with John Dylan. I do not class myself as being ‘an educated man’ and certainly not an intellectual. I am not what some would call 'well read' but I do enjoy writing and I want to be the best I can at it. I achieved higher qualifications as a mature student and could always express my thoughts both verbally and in writing, but that was on a scientific none fictional basis. Creative writing is a different ball game.

I have the ideas, several novels in the making and one, which with a bit of luck and a following wind, is publishable and marketable. Without YWO, I would never have achieved my present standard. I now understand ‘the rules’ and therefore, how to bend them. The comments of others encouraged me to look further, to study and research, to hone the skills. I still cock up, mainly because I believe in my work and my characters but I value and listen to the opinions of others. Nothing gives me greater pleasure than to review someone’s work when it is obvious that they are just starting out on the road.

For me, poor spelling is unforgiveable because that’s what the spell check is for. Of course, it is not infallible and then there are the dreaded typos. However, punctuation, syntax, structure, passive voice, verb confusion, narrative voice and all the rest can go wrong for even the most experienced author because we see what we expect to see and not what we have actually written.

That’s the beauty of YWO, you can make those mistakes and someone will point them out to you. You learn from that and can then put what you have learned to good use in the rest of your work. Having learned the lesson, you can pass that knowledge on to someone else. What could be more rewarding?