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PERRY
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I'm not saying all TT's are rubbish and my taste is better. I'm saying that some rubbish has floated to the top in the past where quality stories could have benefitted from the professional critiques on offer. As it happens that view - however politely - had been reflected in the prof reviews received by those pieces, so it's not all me. Nor do intend - at present - to engage in transatlantic legal issues.
This post was last edited by PERRY, 08 May 2012, 08:58
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Tessie
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Quote: PERRY, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 08:57I'm not saying all TT's are rubbish and my taste is better. I'm saying that some rubbish has floated to the top in the past where quality stories could have benefitted from the professional critiques on offer. As it happens that view - however politely - had been reflected in the prof reviews received by those pieces, so it's not all me. Nor do intend - at present - to engage in transatlantic legal issues. Quite right Perry. Agree wholeheartedly with Bigbadjoe's views and comments too. Well said sir. I think the crux of the matter is that there are excellent works on here, some which I have come across myself, which make you wonder why they are not published let alone on the TT. Then again there are other that go straight there (TT), so it does promote questions which are valid.
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denna
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Quote: Tessie, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 09:17Quote: PERRY, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 08:57I'm not saying all TT's are rubbish and my taste is better. I'm saying that some rubbish has floated to the top in the past where quality stories could have benefitted from the professional critiques on offer. As it happens that view - however politely - had been reflected in the prof reviews received by those pieces, so it's not all me. Nor do intend - at present - to engage in transatlantic legal issues. Quite right Perry. Agree wholeheartedly with Bigbadjoe's views and comments too. Well said sir. I think the crux of the matter is that there are excellent works on here, some which I have come across myself, which make you wonder why they are not published let alone on the TT. Then again there are other that go straight there (TT), so it does promote questions which are valid. Should be a lesson for all you writers down at the bottom of the pile in the TT charts. It's in NO WAY an accurate way to judge on whether a novel is written well (interesting and all those other little details) or not. When I posted my first novel beginning here (bad, bad, bad though it was) I sat around the low twenty number in the charts, 22 or 24-- if I remember right. Then I pulled it and made the corrections (the suggestions I agreed with) from all the crits that had rolled in. Re-post time--- let's see how far up the charts I can move. Mmmm, went straight to the bottome of the pile in no time. I believe it sat in last place at one time before we drop into the archieves--- might even have been behind a few of those.  You have GOT to have a sense of humor about these things if you want to survive this game. Mandatory for all wannabe writers. After a good chuckle or two (because "I" knew the story had improved) I picked up a few more tidbits and pulled that story for good. Time to write another one. My first novel did eventually get picked up by a publisher, but I don't think I would ever have reached that point if not for all the help I received from my writing friends. My success came because of you guys, not because of a prof. crit earned by getting in the TT. You all know who you are, so go ahead and pat yourselves on the back. I plan to list this site in my dedication page. I've always said, you get what you want to get from a peer-critique site like YWO.  Which for some, is nothing.
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PERRY
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I'll agree that the real value for most is in the reviews of peers. It has to be. Also that no-one in the charts (or not, as the case may be) should feel that they should give up if they really want to write. At the end of the day it takes all sorts and - as denna says - you make the final decision and you know when you're improving.
I wouldn't say that a professional review isn't a help though, even when the compound advice of peers will get you there anyway.
It's a matter of perceived goals. I don't care about getting into the TT as long as my writing improves. Some, however, may see this as the goal it is presented to be. Some may wonder why have charts and a TT if not to aim for the top.
Perhaps this is the real goal of the charts, to slough a way of thinking.
I'm not going to be cloying; I'll just say YWO has provided a valuable forum and facility for all types of writers.
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denna
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Quote: PERRY, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:09I'll agree that the real value for most is in the reviews of peers. It has to be. Also that no-one in the charts (or not, as the case may be) should feel that they should give up if they really want to write. At the end of the day it takes all sorts and - as denna says - you make the final decision and you know when you're improving. I wouldn't say that a professional review isn't a help though, even when the compound advice of peers will get you there anyway. It's a matter of perceived goals. I don't care about getting into the TT as long as my writing improves. Some, however, may see this as the goal it is presented to be. Some may wonder why have charts and a TT if not to aim for the top. Perhaps this is the real goal of the charts, to slough a way of thinking. I'm not going to be cloying; I'll just say YWO has provided a valuable forum and facility for all types of writers. Oh, trust me, if I ever got into the top ten I'd probably dance a jig and do all those things top tenners get to do when they last out the month. I've just learned it's not worth stressing over when you don't get there. Pro crits are nice to have, but I think in a lot of cases they just back up what you already know, have reservations about, or have been told by your peers needs work. I scrimped and saved to pay for a pro crit on my beginning chapters and was told where the problem area was-- same problem my last two critters had told me for free. I just didn't want to believe it, not until I paid $200.00 to have "a real" agent or editor say it again.  Anyway, the novel got picked up shortly after I swallowed my pride and fixed the damn problem.
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youngun
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Quote: denna, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 07:01Quote: PERRY, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:09I'll agree that the real value for most is in the reviews of peers. It has to be. Also that no-one in the charts (or not, as the case may be) should feel that they should give up if they really want to write. At the end of the day it takes all sorts and - as denna says - you make the final decision and you know when you're improving. I wouldn't say that a professional review isn't a help though, even when the compound advice of peers will get you there anyway. It's a matter of perceived goals. I don't care about getting into the TT as long as my writing improves. Some, however, may see this as the goal it is presented to be. Some may wonder why have charts and a TT if not to aim for the top. Perhaps this is the real goal of the charts, to slough a way of thinking. I'm not going to be cloying; I'll just say YWO has provided a valuable forum and facility for all types of writers. Oh, trust me, if I ever got into the top ten I'd probably dance a jig and do all those things top tenners get to do when they last out the month. I've just learned it's not worth stressing over when you don't get there. Pro crits are nice to have, but I think in a lot of cases they just back up what you already know, have reservations about, or have been told by your peers needs work. I scrimped and saved to pay for a pro crit on my beginning chapters and was told where the problem area was-- same problem my last two critters had told me for free. I just didn't want to believe it, not until I paid $200.00 to have "a real" agent or editor say it again. Anyway, the novel got picked up shortly after I swallowed my pride and fixed the damn problem. And much as one may wonder why one's own deathless prose has not made the TT, it really beggars belief to think that people would go to the hacking lengths suggested just to get in there. I mean if the TT led to actual cash sales, sailing craft in the South of France and dancing girls (or boys). But for a 'pro-crit?' Learning how to deal in bonds would be a lot easier.
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PERRY
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Quote: youngun, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 08:38Quote: denna, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 07:01Quote: PERRY, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:09I'll agree that the real value for most is in the reviews of peers. It has to be. Also that no-one in the charts (or not, as the case may be) should feel that they should give up if they really want to write. At the end of the day it takes all sorts and - as denna says - you make the final decision and you know when you're improving. I wouldn't say that a professional review isn't a help though, even when the compound advice of peers will get you there anyway. It's a matter of perceived goals. I don't care about getting into the TT as long as my writing improves. Some, however, may see this as the goal it is presented to be. Some may wonder why have charts and a TT if not to aim for the top. Perhaps this is the real goal of the charts, to slough a way of thinking. I'm not going to be cloying; I'll just say YWO has provided a valuable forum and facility for all types of writers. Oh, trust me, if I ever got into the top ten I'd probably dance a jig and do all those things top tenners get to do when they last out the month. I've just learned it's not worth stressing over when you don't get there. Pro crits are nice to have, but I think in a lot of cases they just back up what you already know, have reservations about, or have been told by your peers needs work. I scrimped and saved to pay for a pro crit on my beginning chapters and was told where the problem area was-- same problem my last two critters had told me for free. I just didn't want to believe it, not until I paid $200.00 to have "a real" agent or editor say it again. Anyway, the novel got picked up shortly after I swallowed my pride and fixed the damn problem. And much as one may wonder why one's own deathless prose has not made the TT, it really beggars belief to think that people would go to the hacking lengths suggested just to get in there. I mean if the TT led to actual cash sales, sailing craft in the South of France and dancing girls (or boys). But for a 'pro-crit?' Learning how to deal in bonds would be a lot easier. Very true, youngun - and if you read back you'll see I'm not suggesting they do, merely that it would be possible on a theoretical and academic basis. The whole shebang would indeed be better employed in a clawback of money from the bloody banks.  I really wouldn't regard mine as "deathless prose" either (much as I love the phrase). It's published and I still have hankerings over improving it, but there comes a time - especially if one is a perfectionist unto madness - that you have to let it go and move on to more fertile fields, or buy a new computer, rather than having the room cluttered with memory and accessory supplements.
This post was last edited by PERRY, 09 May 2012, 09:12
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notleyab
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Quote: PERRY, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 09:06.... rather than having the room cluttered with memory and accessory supplements. That gives me this vision of a brain floating in a goldfish bowl on the coffee table.......................... Oops. Baaaaaaaaaaaaarf...
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PERRY
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Quote: notleyab, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 12:29Quote: PERRY, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 09:06.... rather than having the room cluttered with memory and accessory supplements. That gives me this vision of a brain floating in a goldfish bowl on the coffee table.......................... Oops. Baaaaaaaaaaaaarf... You're a very troubled person, notleyab. 
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draig
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Quote: lostamy, Saturday, 5 May 2012 05:56This might be due to the books' excellent quality which makes them tempting to read, as is the case with the current top ten. If the synopsis seems interesting enough, the reviewer would accept the piece immediately, and if it is a real good piece, he would devour it in no time and posts his review on the same day. This is not the case with books that seem dull or have an uninviting synopsis. It is a pity that most reviewers tend to skip those, or just don't feel like reading them at once and end up forgetting them until the four days are over, and thus deprive the author from badly needed advice. There is also the possibility that the reader reads the piece and doesn't like it very much, and finds that if he posts an honest criticism he would receive angry response from the author. I used to skip works of authors who got needlessly mad over my previous criticism of their works. I just think 'why bother' and remove the piece. Now I tend to post my criticism regardless of the author's responses and hope to be treated the same way. Sometimes, the reason for a delayed review is much simpler than that. The author might have a stock of reading credits which he collected a month before. Using a credit from such stock without making any new reviews means the piece would have to wait at least 3 or 4 days before it enters the review pool. To sum it up, the best cure for receiving delayed reviews is to try changing the synopsis, or maybe try to make the first page of the book more tempting to read, and also to make at least 1 review on the same day one allocates a new credit to his piece. Best of luck to everyone with their writing. Perhaps the reviewer know the story is in the TT & that's why they review it. Knowing all else have score it highley is going to be a bias. There is also the possibility that the reviewer also knows the author & are 'friends'.
The Stories so Far
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The Secret?
08 May 2012, 08:57
