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The Secret?
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rosalindwinter
 22 May 2012, 09:43 #150514 Reply To Post
Quote: youngun, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 08:22


...

A final thought. It’s not happened to me yet on YWO. But what if one were to receive a work that was experimental in form – say like early 20th century ‘stream-of-consciousness’ novels or later stuff like Jack Kerouac. Would we seek to apply the rules of SPAG to those? Or would we approach them with an open mind?


If the SPAG "errors" are an integral part of the narrative voice, then one would hope reviewers would recognise that. Similarly, SPAG "errors" in dialogue are almost inevitable: who speaks in perfectly grammatical prose? In fact, if there weren't some, reviewers would be likely to judge the dialogue stilted.

I don't have any problem either with such "rule-breaking" as short, choppy sentences without verbs, provided they're used for specific effect and that they do achieve the intended effect. Likewise starting stences with And, But, etc - perfectly acceptable in context, even though, strictly speaking, this breaks the "rules."

It's really largely a matter of common sense, and recognising when a writer is breaking rules to achieve an effect. If s/he succeeds, then that's a plus, not a minus.

The only SPAG "errors" that generally need to be addressed are typos, and ones that are there because the writer isn't adept in standard English. I think it's usually fairly obvious if that's the case.
This post was last edited by rosalindwinter, 22 May 2012, 09:44
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Scias te fortasse Romanum esse si ... discrimen apud te recentissimum tumultus fuerit servilis (Henricus Barbatus)
Andrew A
 22 May 2012, 10:11 #150517 Reply To Post
Quote: youngun, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 08:22
OK, I’m sure there are people on this site who are just as experienced as me, if not more. So I’m not going to issue any ex cathedra statements, just offer one or two personal observations that may be helpful. I think this whole matter really divides into two stages.

The first is what I would call the creative process of translating an idea into live fiction. It’s this that I think we’re essentially about on this site. I wouldn’t get too hung up about the odd typo at this stage. I’d point out to an author if poor grammar etc was spoiling their whole approach - but personally I’ve found this very rare. What I concentrate on in reviewing is: 1)is there any way this MS can be made to work better in order to achieve what the author is trying to do; 2) what markets might exist for the work.
Now, one thing that has struck me is the different attitudes that some writers may have to revising their work. For example, a screenwriter will not be fazed at being asked to deliver as many as 15-20 rewrites, sometimes more. I’m not saying writers of prose fiction need to do this, only that perhaps there is a lesson there for all of us not to be too ‘copy-proud.’
Before we leave this early magical stage of authoring, perhaps I can make a recommendation. Plotting and Writing Suspense Fiction by Patricia Highsmith is a volume that goes into considerable detail about the germination and development of ideas. I think it also goes well beyond the scope of suspense fiction, just as its author’s books are now rated well beyond the ‘thriller’ category.

The second stage of things for me is really about what happens when the MS goes into the production phase. In traditional publishing, this would include the stages at which galley-proofs (‘galleys’) and final or page-proofs are produced and any final copy-editing and proofreading amendments are made. It’s a while since I took a book through production, so no doubt a lot has changed. But the onus was always to keep changes to a minimum once the pages were set. Not least because contracts often specified that an author was only allowed a certain number of alterations at these final stages – any beyond that number being at the author’s expense!

A final thought. It’s not happened to me yet on YWO. But what if one were to receive a work that was experimental in form – say like early 20th century ‘stream-of-consciousness’ novels or later stuff like Jack Kerouac. Would we seek to apply the rules of SPAG to those? Or would we approach them with an open mind?

Thanks youngun that’s very helpful. I’ve reached the stage with one novel where I honestly believe I can’t do any more with it without outside help and advice. Everyone who has read it says it’s ready to go to market, but they’re all amateurs like me – what do we know. I suppose that at some point you simply have to send your baby out into the big wide world and see what happens. Hopefully it will still be alive and kicking when it comes back.

This post was last edited by Andrew A, 22 May 2012, 10:13
youngun
 22 May 2012, 10:22 #150518 Reply To Post
Quote: Andrew A, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 10:11
I’ve reached the stage with one novel where I honestly believe I can’t do any more with it without outside help and advice. Everyone who has read it says it’s ready to go to market, but they’re all amateurs like me – what do we know. I suppose that at some point you simply have to send your baby out into the big wide world and see what happens. Hopefully it will still be alive and kicking when it comes back.



Congratulations for having reached that stage. A lot of people never do. But you're probably right to think this is where the hard work starts. As if what went before wasn't!

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