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Pouring and poring.
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notleyab
 27 Jun 2011, 22:55 #121750 Reply To Post
Quote: kazmojazz, Monday, 27 Jun 2011 16:02
Quote: MJ26, Monday, 27 Jun 2011 15:46
For a good definition of clichés and hackneyed words and phrases and battered ornaments etc, see Fowler's Modern English Usage - it's all good, and interesting, stuff.


Just ordered it from Amazon. Maybe now I'll stop asking awkward questions - and stop using cliches, too. Bingo!


Except, has it ever bn updated? the version I've got was written abt 1066.
Zuckerberg Shmuckerberg, Starbucks Sucks
Chuck Buckner
 28 Jun 2011, 03:07 #121759 Reply To Post
Quote: kazmojazz, Monday, 27 Jun 2011 14:49
Quote: Amber Fox, Monday, 27 Jun 2011 14:41
I've got a nasty feeling Joe is right. And why use a cliche when you can 'study' or 'look at' a map? Say it like it is.


Yes, but WHY is it a cliche, when to pore means 'to study with steady, continued attention and application'? Surely, the word is perfect for the situation. 'Look at' doesn't mean the same thing. To pore is a verb. Why the hell can we use some and not others? PLEASE someone explain.


I think this a very good question. I don't think that common everyday phrases, even though they may be overused are clichés. Pore over a map, pore over a book are not clichés. Standing alone, they show a specific action without any comparison or added meaning. Most clichés show some meaning, usually by some form of comparison. One can usually start a cliché and the person standing next to them will know what words follow.
...
kazmojazz
 28 Jun 2011, 07:09 #121764 Reply To Post
Thank you, Chuck. That makes sense. I don't know why I'm so bothered, since I don't even have a flippin' map in my story, let alone someone poring over it.

Notley, it's 2008. Hopefully, that's modern enough to still be relevant. It's on its way now so we shall see. Expect a vast improvement in my writing!
This post was last edited by kazmojazz, 28 Jun 2011, 07:11
notleyab
 28 Jun 2011, 08:40 #121765 Reply To Post
I agree with Chuck.
Just becos the words are commonly used doesn't make them a cliché.
Otherwise you cd argue on here that 'writing a review', or reading a r, is a cliché.
Forgot my sign off line last night.
If dogs wd be pawing over a map, cats wd surely be purring over a map.
Zuckerberg Shmuckerberg, Starbucks Sucks
sulcus
 28 Jun 2011, 09:31 #121772 Reply To Post
Quote: notleyab, Tuesday, 28 Jun 2011 08:40
I agree with Chuck.
Just becos the words are commonly used doesn't make them a cliché.
Otherwise you cd argue on here that 'writing a review', or reading a r, is a cliché.
Forgot my sign off line last night.
If dogs wd be pawing over a map, cats wd surely be purring over a map.


I don't think a simple noun and verb combo can be cliche, but any further embroidering of words around that (adjectival or adverbial but not exclusively) can render something cliche.

Mind you having said that 'heart pounding' is a cliche whichever way you cut it and thatis just noun & verb...

"A,B&E", "Not In My Name" and "52FF" (flash fiction anthology) all available on Amazon Kindle

"How a psychopath makes sweet love. I can get you ringside. Royal box even."
papa stas
 28 Jun 2011, 10:06 #121777 Reply To Post
Quote: kazmojazz, Monday, 27 Jun 2011 15:45
Just realised I'm sounding like a three-year-old with all my whys. Hackneyed, I get. Thank you.


Can I play in your sandbox too?

I'm three years old -

when it comes to cliches.

If someone tells me -

"That's cliche"

Then they themselves have just used a cliche - haven't they?

The importance for a story teller - is to use language that his reader knows/understands/comprehends/ etc. and if that includes cliches - then so be it.

It ain't the words ya use to tell a story -

it's the story itself that's paramount IMHO -

and if your reader/hearer don't get the drift -

then what's the use of writing/telling it to them?

..........................................

Everything written is a cliche -

of one sort or another -

nothing is new -

Unless of course you begin making up words.

Ladies, when they go to the bathroom, usually fard.

That line might get me a slap in the face from some. How dare you? PIG! Gentlemen don't say those kinds of things in mixed company etc

"...but I only wanted to show the expansive vocabulary I command"

"Yea! well the hell with your expensive vocabwhatever."

"...but you've misunderstood me - I only meant that when ladies go to the bathroom they usually apply makeup to their face."

"Then why the hell didn't ya say that to begin with?"

LIFE IS A CLICHE.

papa
stas (whose tiring of his own tirade)









This post was last edited by papa stas, 28 Jun 2011, 10:08
As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!
Joe 90
 28 Jun 2011, 10:09 #121778 Reply To Post
Quote: papa stas, Tuesday, 28 Jun 2011 10:06
Quote: kazmojazz, Monday, 27 Jun 2011 15:45
Just realised I'm sounding like a three-year-old with all my whys. Hackneyed, I get. Thank you.


Can I play in your sandbox too?

I'm three years old -

when it comes to cliches.

If someone tells me -

"That's cliche"

Then they themselves have just used a cliche - haven't they?

The importance for a story teller - is to use language that his reader knows/understands/comprehends/ etc. and if that includes cliches - then so be it.

It ain't the words ya use to tell a story -

it's the story itself that's paramount IMHO -

and if your reader/hearer don't get the drift -

then what's the use of writing/telling it to them?

..........................................

Everything written is a cliche -

of one sort or another -

nothing is new -

Unless of course you begin making up words.

Ladies, when they go to the bathroom, usually fard.

That line might get me a slap in the face from some. How dare you? PIG! Gentlemen don't say those kinds of things in mixed company etc

"...but I only wanted to show the expansive vocabulary I command"

"Yea! well the hell with your expensive vocabwhatever."

"...but you've misunderstood me - I only meant that when ladies go to the bathroom they usually apply makeup to their face."

"Then why the hell didn't ya say that to begin with?"

LIFE IS A CLICHE.

papa
stas (whose tiring of his own tirade)










You're breaking up worse than usual old chap. Stand closer to the microphone.

my website
papa stas
 28 Jun 2011, 10:18 #121779 Reply To Post
The stately tirades of papa stas -

are never to be heard, Joe.

They are -

to be read.

papa stas (standin' closer to the mike - but it's causin' a hellofalotofstatic)
As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!
SteveP
 28 Jun 2011, 11:24 #121782 Reply To Post
Quote: papa stas, Tuesday, 28 Jun 2011 10:18
The stately tirades of papa stas -

are never to be heard, Joe.

They are -

to be read.

papa stas (standin' closer to the mike - but it's causin' a hellofalotofstatic)


In his rambling way Papa makes the point that every word or phrase has to be assessed on an individual basis, rather than enforcing some blanket ban on 'cliches'. If a cliche can be avoided easily (if that is what it is) then do so, but if you have to over complicate the text just to get rid of it, better just to leave it in so the actual experience of reading it is improved.
.
sulcus
 28 Jun 2011, 11:49 #121783 Reply To Post
Quote: papa stas, Tuesday, 28 Jun 2011 10:06
Quote: kazmojazz, Monday, 27 Jun 2011 15:45
Just realised I'm sounding like a three-year-old with all my whys. Hackneyed, I get. Thank you.


It ain't the words ya use to tell a story -

it's the story itself that's paramount IMHO -

papa
stas (whose tiring of his own tirade)



BEG TO DIFFER
"A,B&E", "Not In My Name" and "52FF" (flash fiction anthology) all available on Amazon Kindle

"How a psychopath makes sweet love. I can get you ringside. Royal box even."
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