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Tommi
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Datahog's hugely informative post yesterday reiterated what I've come across in every how-to book I've read - novels should be novel-length (85-100k being the size given). I guess some genres (looking round the shelves) beef it out a bit more - fantasy, for example, which goes hand in hand with the fuller descriptive style that often flummoxes reviewers here.
We're seeing more and more books, even on the 3for2 tables of the 150-200 page size (not the usual 300-400). And not just Ian McEwan or Kazuo Ishiguro - recently I've read Dubravka Ugresic's Ministry of Pain, Alessandro Baricco's Silk, three Murakami novels, and Marie Darrieusecq's Mal de Mer, and there seems to be a growing number.
Does this mean that agents are starting to look more favourably (by which I mean at all) at shorter novels of this kind? I ask because I had always assumed it was the kind of thing that you could do if you were established but now there seem to be more new (not necessarily previously unpublished but certainly not yet broken through) authors having short novels published.
I can understand the reticence to look at them - aside from convincing the public to part with their cash for less (though the examples seem to suggest that this isn't an issue so much these days), I can certainly see that many attempts at short novels are (Silk - sorry to the millions who loved it - certainly fell in this category) actually bloated short stories/novellas rather than (like Ministry of Pain or the wonderful After Dark) hard-boiled, all the junk thrown out novels. In other words, I tend to find good short novels are really good, and bad ones really bad (they typify the extremes of eliminating or giving yourself over to self-indulgence).
Anyway, anyone with any inside knowledge I'd love to know.
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JDSmith
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I asked the very same question of Conn Iggulden (historical fiction author). He said he originally wrote his first book at 90k + words, and the agent asked him to beef it up to more like 110/120k before submitting to an publisher. He said the rest of books are between 110 and 135k, from memory. Bernard Cornwell's last book was a bit puny, and I heard a lot of complaints about the length of it. Of course I'm only talking HF here, not sure about others.
JD
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P J
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I think the opposite is perhaps true of the young adult market(?) A few years ago it was all 100,000 word fantasy epics, and series books - eg Harry Potter, His Dark Materials, now it seems to be 50 - 60,000 word first person one off stories - e.g Meg Rosoff - How I Live Now. I think I might be a few years too late with mine!  Has anyone else noticed this?
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Tabby
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I think it's probably easier to break the rules, or get away with stuff when you're already published and the same rules don't apply for unpublished writers wanting to get their break.
Personally, I think the length of the book is really dictated by the story. I think the story is the thing. Give them a good story, great characters and good writing and an idea that's fresh and, unless it's a ridiculous word length, I think we all stand a chance.
Recently a new author for YA books, got a fantastic two book deal. He's on his umpteenth rewrite but the book has grown in length, originally it was about 45,000 words, as they ask for more layers to the story.
Tunnels, another YA book was self-published and then taken on by ChickenHouse and was rewritten and expanded upon. Ironically, as much as I enjoyed the premise, I thought it could do with a good edit and tightening up.
(Yes, I read a lot of kids books.)
I'm guessing there's probably something to do with the cost of print runs thrown into the mix and how much of an advance the author gets to how much publicity they get. Actually, I know that's an important consideration for any author to think about.
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jacobea
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Well, keeping in mind that mine has yet to be completed and edited, if shorter novels are done thing these days, then i'm screwed with mine 
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richie_d
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I hope there is a market for short novels--the first draft of "¡Shake Off!" came out at 52,000 words. . .
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Cope-Walker
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Here are some novel lengths:
27 million cubits
half a furlong
six inches and sixty two sixty fourths
a trillionth of a light year
planck's constant
Hope these are of some use!
Enjoy!
Copey
Note to self: Must get back to work. Traffic lights to sell (And yes, Richie D, you may make the obligatory jokes, get 'em out of the way)
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Annie Wicking
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I was told by an agent that a writer's first book should be between 75 to 85k when I told her my novel stood a 129K. I tried to reduce it to 85k but it now stand at 111K and that is where it will remain until a publisher or agent tells me they will only on take it on if I was to reduce it further. I do think you need to think careful about the amount of pages a normal paperback will hold without it breaking it spine or being uncomfortable to hold. I was told by a publisher that 500 pages is about right but it does cost money to produce it. So a publisher does have to be sure that they will get a good return on your sales to produce your first book at that size.  Just my thoughts
The worst thing that can happen to a writer is to become a Writer. Mary McCarthyThe fact is, writing can be done only during the time when one ought to be doing something else. Isabel Paterson
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jacobea
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"I was told by a publisher that 500 pages is about right but it does cost money to produce it." Anne Wickling. One that note-would a c.200 A4 page MS be considered too big by an agent  ? No idea about a word count yet because i'm not finished, but c. 200 pages that's how long i'm predicting mine's going to be 
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Tommi
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Quote: jacobea, Monday, 30 Jun 2008 01:22"I was told by a publisher that 500 pages is about right but it does cost money to produce it." Anne Wickling. One that note-would a c.200 A4 page MS be considered too big by an agent ? No idea about a word count yet because i'm not finished, but c. 200 pages that's how long i'm predicting mine's going to be Thanks for all this. Jacobea - a double-spaced page of A4 is slightly less than a page of a book but only slightly - so I'm guessing this would be 220-50 pages of a book.
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JDSmith
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Quote: jacobea, Monday, 30 Jun 2008 01:22"I was told by a publisher that 500 pages is about right but it does cost money to produce it." Anne Wickling. One that note-would a c.200 A4 page MS be considered too big by an agent ? No idea about a word count yet because i'm not finished, but c. 200 pages that's how long i'm predicting mine's going to be Or, if like mine you are typing in Times single line spacing, it's about 110k - only I'm not finished yet
JD
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Cobble
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Quote: Cope-Walker, Friday, 27 Jun 2008 14:30Here are some novel lengths: 27 million cubits half a furlong six inches and sixty two sixty fourths a trillionth of a light year planck's constantHope these are of some use! Enjoy! Copey Note to self: Must get back to work. Traffic lights to sell (And yes, Richie D, you may make the obligatory jokes, get 'em out of the way) Plank wiv a big P - plank. 
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jacobea
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"...double-spaced page of A4 is slightly less than a page of a book but only slightly - so I'm guessing this would be 220-50 pages of a book." Tommi "...typing in Times single line spacing, it's about 110k." JDSmith So a wee bit too big for a first time novel then Looks like some hacking is in order 
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Annie Wicking
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Quote: Tommi, Monday, 30 Jun 2008 08:01Quote: jacobea, Monday, 30 Jun 2008 01:22"I was told by a publisher that 500 pages is about right but it does cost money to produce it." Anne Wickling. One that note-would a c.200 A4 page MS be considered too big by an agent ? No idea about a word count yet because i'm not finished, but c. 200 pages that's how long i'm predicting mine's going to be Thanks for all this. Jacobea - a double-spaced page of A4 is slightly less than a page of a book but only slightly - so I'm guessing this would be 220-50 pages of a book. My understand is 2000 to 3000 words are about 3 to 4 pages in a book and that is in a published book.
The worst thing that can happen to a writer is to become a Writer. Mary McCarthyThe fact is, writing can be done only during the time when one ought to be doing something else. Isabel Paterson
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Cope-Walker
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Quote: Cobble, Monday, 30 Jun 2008 12:09Quote: Cope-Walker, Friday, 27 Jun 2008 14:30Here are some novel lengths: 27 million cubits half a furlong six inches and sixty two sixty fourths a trillionth of a light year planck's constantHope these are of some use! Enjoy! Copey Note to self: Must get back to work. Traffic lights to sell (And yes, Richie D, you may make the obligatory jokes, get 'em out of the way) Plank wiv a big P - plank. Cheeky. Planck wiv a small 'c'. I have suddenly had this vision of a subatomic pirate ship in which the punishment is walking the Planck! Hell's bells, I'm coming up with jokes which only quantum physicists will find amusing*. Fictioneer, if you're out there in cyberspace, how about it? Subatomic pirates. Do the parrots quark? There must be a bosun boson, surely. Copey *Actually, that will get my average hit-rate up!
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Novel lengths
27 Jun 2008, 08:23
