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DaiBach
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Divergence is a young adult novel set in a dystopian world where the population is grouped under what might be described as 'their natures'. There is Abnegation, Dauntless, Erudite, Amity, Candor and Erudite.
The heroine, Tris(Beatrice) shocks her Abnegation family when, at a 'choosing ceremony' when adolescents make the choice of which group they will enter, and thus 'manage' their lives, she chooses Dauntless, a group where the conquest of one's fear and acceptance of risk is a way of progressing. Although to where one progresses and to what is not made very clear.
The plot revolves around the fact that there are 'DIVERGENTS' who, although seeming to belong, do not.
Tris finds that she is one of these as is her mentor.
Together they fight to prevent the 'Erudites' from taking over completely, and by opposing, it seems that they will have caused the artificial division of society to fail.
Granted the theme of the book moves on at a rapid pace, the speed of the story unfolding made it, for me, less than it could have been, which is perhaps a pity.
Again, I found that my suspension of disbelief was strained past breaking point with some of the incidents. Particularly when Tris got shot in the shoulder and still, after a brief pause, managed to function at a very high level. It reminded me of the old black and white Westerns I saw as a child, when the hero would have been 'just winged', having taken a half inch slug of lead in his shoulder, and still fight off the Baddies, kiss the heroine and get on his horse and rise into the sunset.
I think teenagers are much more sophisticated these days and that this and other similar incidents severely flaw the book.
So for me, a second rate effort, and a tribute to the power of advertising.
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karen milner
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Quote: DaiBach, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 12:21Divergence is a young adult novel set in a dystopian world where the population is grouped under what might be described as 'their natures'. There is Abnegation, Dauntless, Erudite, Amity, Candor and Erudite. The heroine, Tris(Beatrice) shocks her Abnegation family when, at a 'choosing ceremony' when adolescents make the choice of which group they will enter, and thus 'manage' their lives, she chooses Dauntless, a group where the conquest of one's fear and acceptance of risk is a way of progressing. Although to where one progresses and to what is not made very clear. The plot revolves around the fact that there are 'DIVERGENTS' who, although seeming to belong, do not. Tris finds that she is one of these as is her mentor. Together they fight to prevent the 'Erudites' from taking over completely, and by opposing, it seems that they will have caused the artificial division of society to fail. Granted the theme of the book moves on at a rapid pace, the speed of the story unfolding made it, for me, less than it could have been, which is perhaps a pity. Again, I found that my suspension of disbelief was strained past breaking point with some of the incidents. Particularly when Tris got shot in the shoulder and still, after a brief pause, managed to function at a very high level. It reminded me of the old black and white Westerns I saw as a child, when the hero would have been 'just winged', having taken a half inch slug of lead in his shoulder, and still fight off the Baddies, kiss the heroine and get on his horse and rise into the sunset. I think teenagers are much more sophisticated these days and that this and other similar incidents severely flaw the book. So for me, a second rate effort, and a tribute to the power of advertising. I totally agree that the book wasn't filled out enough and to me the characters were quite hollow. When Tris' parents died I didn't feel the least bit of emotion, they were paper thin in their portrayal, IMO. I also wanted a deeper meaning. I wanted Divergent to mean more. I wanted these gifted people ( who could fit into any faction) to be more conscious of their gift and their responsibility. Instead it all seemed a bit hap-hazard. I think an opportunity was missed to develop Tris' brother too. As I said on the book club thread, I wanted there to have been some secret planning by the parents. Maybe that they sacrificed their children joining their faction for the greater good. The brother, instead of choosing Erudite for selfish reasons, would have then had a mission, something at stake, that the reader would discover later. That would have made sense for Tris too as she always thought her brother was perfect for Abnegation. Agree totally about the bullet in the shoulder, she's brave but not invincible, lol. I take it you didn't fancy Four, David. But take it from me he is eminently fanciable! And my favourite character. At least there was a bit of depth put into his background. But even with the above criticism, I couldn't put the damn book down and I really enjoyed it. And Ms Roth is only twenty-three grrrrrrr.
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rosefitzrobert
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Quote: karen milner, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 12:42Quote: DaiBach, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 12:21Divergence is a young adult novel set in a dystopian world where the population is grouped under what might be described as 'their natures'. There is Abnegation, Dauntless, Erudite, Amity, Candor and Erudite. The heroine, Tris(Beatrice) shocks her Abnegation family when, at a 'choosing ceremony' when adolescents make the choice of which group they will enter, and thus 'manage' their lives, she chooses Dauntless, a group where the conquest of one's fear and acceptance of risk is a way of progressing. Although to where one progresses and to what is not made very clear. The plot revolves around the fact that there are 'DIVERGENTS' who, although seeming to belong, do not. Tris finds that she is one of these as is her mentor. Together they fight to prevent the 'Erudites' from taking over completely, and by opposing, it seems that they will have caused the artificial division of society to fail. Granted the theme of the book moves on at a rapid pace, the speed of the story unfolding made it, for me, less than it could have been, which is perhaps a pity. Again, I found that my suspension of disbelief was strained past breaking point with some of the incidents. Particularly when Tris got shot in the shoulder and still, after a brief pause, managed to function at a very high level. It reminded me of the old black and white Westerns I saw as a child, when the hero would have been 'just winged', having taken a half inch slug of lead in his shoulder, and still fight off the Baddies, kiss the heroine and get on his horse and rise into the sunset. I think teenagers are much more sophisticated these days and that this and other similar incidents severely flaw the book. So for me, a second rate effort, and a tribute to the power of advertising. I totally agree that the book wasn't filled out enough and to me the characters were quite hollow. When Tris' parents died I didn't feel the least bit of emotion, they were paper thin in their portrayal, IMO. I also wanted a deeper meaning. I wanted Divergent to mean more. I wanted these gifted people ( who could fit into any faction) to be more conscious of their gift and their responsibility. Instead it all seemed a bit hap-hazard. I think an opportunity was missed to develop Tris' brother too. As I said on the book club thread, I wanted there to have been some secret planning by the parents. Maybe that they sacrificed their children joining their faction for the greater good. The brother, instead of choosing Erudite for selfish reasons, would have then had a mission, something at stake, that the reader would discover later. That would have made sense for Tris too as she always thought her brother was perfect for Abnegation. Agree totally about the bullet in the shoulder, she's brave but not invincible, lol. I take it you didn't fancy Four, David. But take it from me he is eminently fanciable! And my favourite character. At least there was a bit of depth put into his background. But even with the above criticism, I couldn't put the damn book down and I really enjoyed it. And Ms Roth is only twenty-three grrrrrrr. The author would have to be 23 (hot with resentment at 16 years of schooling) to make the Erudites the villains. Were she older, she would realize that it is the Abnegations that are, and always have been. Haven't read the book, but your reviews above are extremely telling.
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karen milner
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Quote: rosefitzrobert, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 12:53Quote: karen milner, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 12:42Quote: DaiBach, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 12:21Divergence is a young adult novel set in a dystopian world where the population is grouped under what might be described as 'their natures'. There is Abnegation, Dauntless, Erudite, Amity, Candor and Erudite. The heroine, Tris(Beatrice) shocks her Abnegation family when, at a 'choosing ceremony' when adolescents make the choice of which group they will enter, and thus 'manage' their lives, she chooses Dauntless, a group where the conquest of one's fear and acceptance of risk is a way of progressing. Although to where one progresses and to what is not made very clear. The plot revolves around the fact that there are 'DIVERGENTS' who, although seeming to belong, do not. Tris finds that she is one of these as is her mentor. Together they fight to prevent the 'Erudites' from taking over completely, and by opposing, it seems that they will have caused the artificial division of society to fail. Granted the theme of the book moves on at a rapid pace, the speed of the story unfolding made it, for me, less than it could have been, which is perhaps a pity. Again, I found that my suspension of disbelief was strained past breaking point with some of the incidents. Particularly when Tris got shot in the shoulder and still, after a brief pause, managed to function at a very high level. It reminded me of the old black and white Westerns I saw as a child, when the hero would have been 'just winged', having taken a half inch slug of lead in his shoulder, and still fight off the Baddies, kiss the heroine and get on his horse and rise into the sunset. I think teenagers are much more sophisticated these days and that this and other similar incidents severely flaw the book. So for me, a second rate effort, and a tribute to the power of advertising. I totally agree that the book wasn't filled out enough and to me the characters were quite hollow. When Tris' parents died I didn't feel the least bit of emotion, they were paper thin in their portrayal, IMO. I also wanted a deeper meaning. I wanted Divergent to mean more. I wanted these gifted people ( who could fit into any faction) to be more conscious of their gift and their responsibility. Instead it all seemed a bit hap-hazard. I think an opportunity was missed to develop Tris' brother too. As I said on the book club thread, I wanted there to have been some secret planning by the parents. Maybe that they sacrificed their children joining their faction for the greater good. The brother, instead of choosing Erudite for selfish reasons, would have then had a mission, something at stake, that the reader would discover later. That would have made sense for Tris too as she always thought her brother was perfect for Abnegation. Agree totally about the bullet in the shoulder, she's brave but not invincible, lol. I take it you didn't fancy Four, David. But take it from me he is eminently fanciable! And my favourite character. At least there was a bit of depth put into his background. But even with the above criticism, I couldn't put the damn book down and I really enjoyed it. And Ms Roth is only twenty-three grrrrrrr. The author would have to be 23 (hot with resentment at 16 years of schooling) to make the Erudites the villains. Were she older, she would realize that it is the Abnegations that are, and always have been. Haven't read the book, but your reviews above are extremely telling. LOL, welcome, Rose. You could be right. I liked the Abnegation though, they reminded me of Quakers, just more boring1 I saw a news story on fracking near Blackpool yesterday and thought of you. It sounds like a terrible business and apparently it caused a minor earthquake! I do hope you venture into our little book club again or better still become a member.
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DaiBach
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Quote: rosefitzrobert, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 12:53The author would have to be 23 (hot with resentment at 16 years of schooling) to make the Erudites the villains. Were she older, she would realize that it is the Abnegations that are, and always have been. Haven't read the book, but your reviews above are extremely telling. What interested me a great deal was the level of what I would call 'interpersonal' violence. It is not a question of whether I like it or not, that is neither here nor there, nor do I want to make a 'moral' question, not on this thread anyway, but is this level of violence needed to sell a book? I am trying to write a YA novel, where the chief protagonist is a young girl, and there scenes in it where there is, if you like, 'graphic' and I hope fairly shocking descriptions, but they are not 'personal' in the sense that one young woman is trying to knock the shit out of another and, eventually, enjoying the process. Mmm, maybe I am a bit fashioned here, but I am still concerned about it. My 15 yr old grandaughter has read and said she DIDNT like it, but that is a marketing sample of one and a bad premise. What do you think?
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rosefitzrobert
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Quote: karen milner, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 13:05Quote: rosefitzrobert, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 12:53Quote: karen milner, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 12:42Quote: DaiBach, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 12:21Divergence is a young adult novel set in a dystopian world where the population is grouped under what might be described as 'their natures'. There is Abnegation, Dauntless, Erudite, Amity, Candor and Erudite. The heroine, Tris(Beatrice) shocks her Abnegation family when, at a 'choosing ceremony' when adolescents make the choice of which group they will enter, and thus 'manage' their lives, she chooses Dauntless, a group where the conquest of one's fear and acceptance of risk is a way of progressing. Although to where one progresses and to what is not made very clear. The plot revolves around the fact that there are 'DIVERGENTS' who, although seeming to belong, do not. Tris finds that she is one of these as is her mentor. Together they fight to prevent the 'Erudites' from taking over completely, and by opposing, it seems that they will have caused the artificial division of society to fail. Granted the theme of the book moves on at a rapid pace, the speed of the story unfolding made it, for me, less than it could have been, which is perhaps a pity. Again, I found that my suspension of disbelief was strained past breaking point with some of the incidents. Particularly when Tris got shot in the shoulder and still, after a brief pause, managed to function at a very high level. It reminded me of the old black and white Westerns I saw as a child, when the hero would have been 'just winged', having taken a half inch slug of lead in his shoulder, and still fight off the Baddies, kiss the heroine and get on his horse and rise into the sunset. I think teenagers are much more sophisticated these days and that this and other similar incidents severely flaw the book. So for me, a second rate effort, and a tribute to the power of advertising. I totally agree that the book wasn't filled out enough and to me the characters were quite hollow. When Tris' parents died I didn't feel the least bit of emotion, they were paper thin in their portrayal, IMO. I also wanted a deeper meaning. I wanted Divergent to mean more. I wanted these gifted people ( who could fit into any faction) to be more conscious of their gift and their responsibility. Instead it all seemed a bit hap-hazard. I think an opportunity was missed to develop Tris' brother too. As I said on the book club thread, I wanted there to have been some secret planning by the parents. Maybe that they sacrificed their children joining their faction for the greater good. The brother, instead of choosing Erudite for selfish reasons, would have then had a mission, something at stake, that the reader would discover later. That would have made sense for Tris too as she always thought her brother was perfect for Abnegation. Agree totally about the bullet in the shoulder, she's brave but not invincible, lol. I take it you didn't fancy Four, David. But take it from me he is eminently fanciable! And my favourite character. At least there was a bit of depth put into his background. But even with the above criticism, I couldn't put the damn book down and I really enjoyed it. And Ms Roth is only twenty-three grrrrrrr. The author would have to be 23 (hot with resentment at 16 years of schooling) to make the Erudites the villains. Were she older, she would realize that it is the Abnegations that are, and always have been. Haven't read the book, but your reviews above are extremely telling. LOL, welcome, Rose. You could be right. I liked the Abnegation though, they reminded me of Quakers, just more boring1 I saw a news story on fracking near Blackpool yesterday and thought of you. It sounds like a terrible business and apparently it caused a minor earthquake! I do hope you venture into our little book club again or better still become a member. Sorry, didn't know this was a book club. How could I resist a title that said "Do not read..." LOL! But thanks for the welcome. Since of course I haven't read it, I went by the categories alone. I did not associate Abnegation with Quakers, who I associate with pacifism and tolerance, for so are the ones I know - quite a few where I live. I would have put them under Amity I judged on my interpretation of the word "abnegation" as those whose main focus in life is to deny and forbid. PS David, abject apologies. I owe you a review from a very long time ago. Do you still wish the same story looked at, or have you rewritten a million times since, as I have?
This post was last edited by rosefitzrobert, 18 Apr 2012, 13:27
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karen milner
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Quote: DaiBach, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 13:13Quote: rosefitzrobert, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 12:53The author would have to be 23 (hot with resentment at 16 years of schooling) to make the Erudites the villains. Were she older, she would realize that it is the Abnegations that are, and always have been. Haven't read the book, but your reviews above are extremely telling. What interested me a great deal was the level of what I would call 'interpersonal' violence. It is not a question of whether I like it or not, that is neither here nor there, nor do I want to make a 'moral' question, not on this thread anyway, but is this level of violence needed to sell a book? I am trying to write a YA novel, where the chief protagonist is a young girl, and there scenes in it where there is, if you like, 'graphic' and I hope fairly shocking descriptions, but they are not 'personal' in the sense that one young woman is trying to knock the shit out of another and, eventually, enjoying the process. Mmm, maybe I am a bit fashioned here, but I am still concerned about it. My 15 yr old grandaughter has read and said she DIDNT like it, but that is a marketing sample of one and a bad premise. What do you think? I think you have a point and it a disturbing trend. I was also shocked at the level of violence, especially the boy who got stabbed in the eye and Tris being dangled over the railing and (come to think of it) the fight scene where Tris gets the you know what kicked out of her by a boy. Maybe I'm old fashioned too, but it doesn't sit well with me either. The same is true of Hunger Games (though we are not discussing yet) but I found it shocking that the book was aimed at children as young as ten!
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Jane Doe
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I have a couple of questions: First - why do adults read YA fiction? I can't think of anything worse than reading about a bunch of teenagers. Also, it seems to me that all YA authors do is rehash ideas from adult novels and re-populate them with hot young things. Second - what IS the point of YA fiction? Isn't it just an unecessary genre invented by marketing people to generate cash. When I was a teenager (I refuse to use the term YA) I read adult fiction. I didn't need to be pandered to. I'd have found the very notion of YA fiction twee and insulting. It's the last thing I would have read. Erm . . . discuss? x
'Always tell the truth. If you can't always tell the truth, don't lie.'
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Destinyschild
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Karen, make sure you get these two's subs.
Sammy, I read it by mistake. Yes, I know....
Yes, I tend to agree it's a made up genre, but then aren't they all?
Perhaps this age group like to read about characters of their own age and adult fiction rarely is.
What age group is YA meant to encompass?
DC
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karen milner
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Quote: Jane Doe, Wednesday, 18 Apr 2012 17:54I have a couple of questions: First - why do adults read YA fiction? I can't think of anything worse than reading about a bunch of teenagers. Also, it seems to me that all YA authors do is rehash ideas from adult novels and re-populate them with hot young things. Second - what IS the point of YA fiction? Isn't it just an unecessary genre invented by marketing people to generate cash. When I was a teenager (I refuse to use the term YA) I read adult fiction. I didn't need to be pandered to. I'd have found the very notion of YA fiction twee and insulting. It's the last thing I would have read. Erm . . . discuss? x Welcome, Sammy, and I hope you stick around and read some of the recommended titles. Personally, I'm reading YA because the two pro-crits I've recently had (plus many of the YWO reviews) have said that my story would appeal to the YA market. So I'm merely trying to find out what it's all about. But I have to agree with you and DC that it is made-up genre (nowhere near as bad as women's fiction though) and some of it (Hunger Games especially) I would say is indeed adult reading. But from what I can gather from my admittedly limited reading of the YA genre, is that the sex is underplayed. I also have to admit to finding YA a hell of a lot pacier than many adult books I've recently read. Now come on, cough up those subs.
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